Everest is a board-certified psychiatric nurse practitioner certified in functional medicine. She founded and runs Everest Functional Psychiatry and Wellness, one of the only Functional Psychiatry practices in Texas, where she takes a holistic approach to healing and believes in the connection between the body and mind. Integrating lifestyle, diet, medicine, and other innovative technologies, she views each patient individually to help them take control of their health and improve their quality of life and wellbeing.

In this episode:

• Combining functional medicine with psychiatry 
• How media has shaped your relationship with food and body
• Are you blaming your missing period on the wrong things?
• How under eating makes your anxiety worse
• Coffee and cortisol: do you need to quit it altogether? 
• Why food sensitivity tests often aren’t helpful for identifying food intolerances
• The power in community and connection for overcoming disordered eating
• The role between cortisol, exercise, and progesterone

Connect with Everest: 

Instagram: @‌wellnesswitheverest
Website: https://everestpsychandwellness.com/

Transcript:

Lindsey Lusson  00:00

How do you work with patients who have some real fears around foods, and helping them kind of overcome that?

Everest Goldstein  00:08

So I think a big part of it is just educating on how our body, how our metabolism works, the connection between food and how we feel. Taking it very slowly, but working on bringing back in foods and educating on what those thought patterns are, right. So that they can start to understand, oh, I have these thoughts about these foods, and when I am around them that I get anxious. 

Everest Goldstein  00:08

So at least just starting out by acknowledging that. And then working on changing them through different techniques. Mostly a lot of therapeutic techniques. Also working very closely with them on how to slowly bring these foods back into their diet.

Lindsey Lusson  00:50

Welcome to the Period Recovery and Fertility Podcast, where we discuss the challenging warning and life changing process of recovering your period and finding freedom with food and exercise. Whether you’re hoping to regain your cycle to get your health back on track or you’re ready to become a mama, this podcast is for you. While the recovery process isn’t always rainbows and butterflies, it’s my hope to bring you both information and inspiration during your own recovery journey. I’m your host, registered dietitian and fellow HA woman, Lindsey Lusson. 

Lindsey Lusson  01:21

Everest is a board-certified psychiatric nurse practitioner certified in functional medicine. She founded and runs Everest Functional Psychiatry and Wellness, one of the only Functional Psychiatry practices in Texas. Where she takes a holistic approach to healing and believes in the connection between the body and mind. Integrating lifestyle, diet, medicine, and other innovative technologies, she views each patient individually to help them take control of their health and improve their quality of life and wellbeing.

Lindsey Lusson  01:49

Okay, ya’ll! Welcome back to another episode of the Period Recovery and Fertility Podcast. I have a special guest that I am welcoming here today. Welcome Everest!

Everest Goldstein  01:50

Thank you. So excited to be here Lindsey and just talk all things fertility, mental health, and, yeah, dive into it.

Lindsey Lusson  02:04

So important, and you have such a unique approach to everything that I know everyone’s gonna get so much out of this episode. We just appreciate your time. Before we push record, Everest is located in Dallas, Texas, and we were just commiserating over the heat here, where it’s August, where we’re recording. That’s where we’re at today, guys. 

Lindsey Lusson  02:24

So Everest, tell us a little bit more about how you got into being a psychologist and how you decided to take the approach that you do in your practice today.

Everest Goldstein  02:35

Yeah, so really good question. I’ve definitely taken a kind of roundabout route. But I’ve always been interested in mental health, in psychology, psychiatry, all of that. So in college, I actually majored, I went to Princeton and did the liberal arts degree, but my major was psychology. So just very interested in general and learning about people and how we work, and really focused on some of the neuroscience part of that. And then after college, I actually went and became an elementary school teacher, so kind of switched gears. Really loved it, but I started to notice the need for mental health and the community.

Everest Goldstein  03:12

I was teaching in the lack of resources, and really wanted to get back into that space, but in a more clinical way. So I went back to school, got my NP degree. Then while I was doing all of that, I actually got diagnosed with Lyme disease. Got super sick, and was going from doctor to doctor, seeing all these specialists, and nobody could figure it out, nobody could kind of help me get better. 

Everest Goldstein  03:38

Until I saw a functional provider, and she was, like a very much more holistic, integrative. I went to her for a totally separate issue, and she basically diagnosed me, figured everything out, brought me back to life. I kind of over everything. After that experience… So this was kind of when I was getting back into the healthcare world. But after that experience, I was like, wow, there is really something to looking at the whole person, right? So what’s going on in the mind and the body. How are they related?  Everything is affecting everything else, essentially.

Everest Goldstein  04:18

And I just realized how much that had impacted me and how I thought that I could incorporate that form of medicine into what I was doing. So I was specializing in psychiatry. I knew I wanted to go more into the mental health route. But I started to really learn more about the connection between the mind and the body. Got my functional medicine certification. And just decided to kind of combine functional medicine with conventional psychiatry to be able to look at a person completely. Realize what the root cause of their symptoms were, and how do we address those root causes so that we can treat them as a whole person. Get them feeling back to their optimal wellness level.

Lindsey Lusson  05:04

So interesting, because I think that traditional medicine in general tends to look at the bodies in systems, right? Like if you are dealing with a fertility issue, you’re going to go see a reproductive endocrinologist. If you’re dealing with a gastrointestinal issue, you’re going to see a gastroenterologist. Like everybody kind of stays departmentalized, if you will. 

Lindsey Lusson  05:25

And even beyond that, mental health, like going to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist, it’s like a whole different field. It’s just so interesting that we’ve just separated things out, almost to the detriment of failing to connect everything in that way. Do you know of other people that do functional medicine and psychiatry like you do, or are you kind of very unique in the field?

Everest Goldstein  05:50

So I have been on a search for finding as many people as I can, just because I love collaborating with other people. Learning from other people, and it’s nice to build that community. But at least here in Texas, in terms of fully trained Functional Medicine and psychiatric providers, I mean, like less than five that I know of. So I’ve had a lot of people reach out wanting to get more involved in that space, which I think is great. 

Everest Goldstein  06:18

So I’m hoping that in the future, more people will pop up that are doing functional psychiatry. But right now, at least around my area, it’s pretty far and few between. However, what I’ll say is a lot of the more functional integrative medicine world, people are looking at mental health, at least from, like a stress perspective. In terms of how mental health is affecting physical health. So I think that there are pieces of that, even if you’re not necessarily in the psychiatric world.

Lindsey Lusson  06:48

 100%. And I think a lot of our listeners can relate to this too, because there’s definitely a component. So like, when we talk about somebody losing their period with HA, there’s our foundation and our non negotiables. This is the hill I will die on. You can do everything right? But if you, at the end of the day, are still under fueling for the amount of activity that your body is doing, and you’ve done that for years, and you’re still not getting a period, that’s something we have to continue to work on. 

Lindsey Lusson  07:19

However, on the other hand, it’s kind of like this complex interplay of psychological stress that is also impacting things. And I think that that’s definitely one of the ones that people… it isn’t as straightforward. This can be different for everybody. We work with a lot of clients who also work with psychologists and get some help on their mental health. Sometimes we even see, we’ve worked with clients on SSRIs, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I think that medication can have a time and a place. But I do think that people kind of get stuck at some point, whenever they’re kind of trying to change their thought patterns around food or exercise or their body. 

Lindsey Lusson  08:00

What do you kind of bring in, in that type of situation, from a kind of functional medicine perspective, on how you can kind of start to rewire some of those neural pathways?

Everest Goldstein  08:11

That’s a great question. So well, I think just to start out, that’s one thing I really love about your program in general, is you are addressing the psychological part of all of that. Which I think is honestly one of the biggest pieces, often in terms of women under fueling right. Especially women of childbearing age these days, because we grew up. It was funny. I was actually watching, a Friends episode from back, I don’t know, in the 90s or early 2000s. And the character, I mean, the the ideal, what they were talking about with models and everything, it was just a totally different, you wanted to be stick thin. The way they talked about food was different.

Everest Goldstein  08:54

And I just started to think about these are the role models we grew up with, right? This is what we were told. So that was ingrained in our head from a young age, and it’s really hard to break those patterns. So even saying that like that’s… Keeping that in mind when I work with clients of what are their beliefs that they have in their head? And then how can we use different whether it’s therapeutic techniques like different cognitive behavioral techniques, different worksheets, stuff like that, to actually change those thought patterns. 

Everest Goldstein  09:29

Then also I think one of the biggest thing is things is identifying those thought patterns in the beginning. Because I think it’s really easy for a lot of us to… Especially when people come and they’re sick or they in the case of HA, there’s so many other things you can blame it on, right? And a lot of times we’re blaming it on things that aren’t really the root or underlying problem. 

Everest Goldstein  09:53

So one of the biggest things I do is a really thorough, in depth history initial consultation. Where we really dive into not only thought patterns, but also, what are people eating? When are they eating? How are they eating, and what are their thoughts around that? What’s their history with food? What other emotional connections are tied to that? And how has their physical health impacted that? Have they had chronic gut problems, where now they’re scared of certain foods, and why is that happening? And so kind of figuring out how to address the physical gut health. Teach new ways of eating and also change those stuck thought patterns, is a really big starting place of where I go with that. 

Lindsey Lusson  10:43

I think identifying the thought patterns is really hard for people too, because when you’re in your own head, that’s just like you have no awareness of thoughts that are unhealthy or disordered. You know? It’s just like how you’ve always thought. And I think that this is a place where people can really get stuck if they aren’t properly guided. Because they’re like, Oh, well, like, carbs are just bad. Like, the end. Everybody says that. Or, to go back to the Friends episode, well, like, why wouldn’t we want to be skinny? Why wouldn’t we spend our entire lives and drain our bank accounts to be skinny? 

Lindsey Lusson  11:19

And it’s like, has anyone ever asked the question why that’s something that’s so important to you. Is this something that’s really important to you, right? Or is this something that has been decades and generations of information that’s been fed to you to make you think that it’s important because people really profit off of that?

Everest Goldstein  11:37

Oh yeah, It’s actually funny, and part of me is wondering if I should even say this on here. But I remember in high school, in our advisory, one year, people in our advisory put up a bunch of pictures of models on the window, and then wrote in, like, big letters. And this stayed up there for months like no teacher took it down, nothing but big letters. The words like, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels, as a reminder of, oh, like, if you come in and have your lunch in this advisory room, make sure you don’t eat too much. You want to look good, all these things. 

Everest Goldstein  12:12

And looking back, I’m like I really hope that that’s not still happening these days. But it wasn’t even a thing that was questioned, right? And then the other thing is, I’ve had a lot of clients too, so yeah, we have these beliefs, and sometimes we realize that they’re not healthy, but it’s hard for us to truly acknowledge them or change them. But there is also even a lack of education, right?

Everest Goldstein  12:36

A lot of people are really come to me and they’re like, I think eggs are bad because they’re going to raise your cholesterol, and I shouldn’t have any carbs. I need to be on a total low carb diet if I want to lose weight. And I’ve been cutting calories and I can’t lose weight. I’m like, Well, the reason you can’t, you’re stuck in some of these places, is because you’re actually under fueling. You need so many more calories to reach your goal, whether it’s a health goal, a physical goal an appearance goal, whatever it is. 

Everest Goldstein  13:10

So many people think that under fueling is the key to that. Then when you actually educate them on the science of why that’s not the case, that can be really helpful for some people to be like, Oh, wow. I’ve never been told that. Like, I could definitely give that a try. And there might be underlying beliefs that they get stuck in, but it’s just like, such a commonplace belief that we need to be under fueling to get to the place we want to be in.

Lindsey Lusson  13:40

The interesting thing is there are, I’m sure you see this a lot in your podcast, there are a lot of women who are under fueling. Not everybody loses their period, but there are so many women who just simply aren’t eating enough. Some people can just kind of skirt by on the bare minimum. But I also think too, like on making changes, once people do start eating more, I think they start feeling a lot physically better. And they’re kind of like, oh, wow, there’s something to this. And this is probably what I should have been doing all along. But it’s not, until you’re able to actually turn that corner that I think you can start to really see those benefits. 

Everest Goldstein  14:16

Definitely. I would say, majority of women I see are under fueling. High majority of women I see are under fueling. And a lot of people are coming in these days with very low energy, a lot of fatigue. And one of the biggest things that I do to improve people’s fatigue is just have them eat more protein, eat more healthy fats, eat more carbs, and it usually works, usually reverses a lot of the symptoms that they’re experiencing. 

Everest Goldstein  14:48

Sometimes, obviously there’s like, more underlying things going on. But a lot of what I see even causing a lot of different mental health symptoms, like anxiety, depression, ADHD are not only under fueling, but also nutrient deficiencies, which are caused because of under fueling. So if you’re not eating enough nutritious foods and fueling your body properly, you’re going to have these nutrient deficiencies. Then you’re going to have all of these other health and mental health symptoms. 

Lindsey Lusson  15:19

100%. I have to talk to my clients about this all the time, about the connection between low blood sugar and anxiety. I’m so anxious, like, I have to exercise because it controls my anxiety, and I have to just remind them that, like, hey, the exercise is putting you further in a deficit. It’s dropping your blood sugar even lower. And chronic low blood sugar is just like times tenning your anxiety. What are some other things that listeners need to know about anxiety and how under fueling can impact their mood and their emotional state?

Everest Goldstein  15:52

Yeah, so I mean, blood sugar is probably one of the top things I talk about with every client. On that note too, I would say, looking at the way that you consume caffeine, if you do consume caffeine too, because a lot of people, and part of it, some of it is they’re not hungry. Some of it is they think it’s going to make them. thinner or if they hold off on breakfast or skip breakfast and just have their coffee that’s healthier. So I see a lot of people come in and they’re having coffee when they wake up, they’re not eating breakfast, or they’re not eating with their coffee. That puts them not only into a blood sugar spike, but also a cortisol spike, so that stress hormone.

Everest Goldstein  16:38

That’s just going to skyrocket anxiety, and then you’re on this roller coaster the rest of the day. So one thing I think is really important is really focusing on what you’re eating in the morning, right? So making sure, if you are having caffeine, to ideally have protein, healthy, fat, fiber, all those things with that. Like a proper breakfast, at the very least, putting, like, collagen or protein powder, something in your coffee, if you’re like, Oh, I can’t eat for another 30 minutes or an hour. But making sure that anytime you’re having caffeine or on the other end of it, like alcohol, things like that, you’re also having food to fuel your body, keep your blood sugar and your cortisol stable. And prevent any like nutrient deficiencies that caffeine and alcohol can cause as well.

Lindsey Lusson  17:32

Yeah, definitely. Caffeine, I think, is one of those things that a lot of women who are under fueling really love, because it gives you that false sense of energy, and it can really dull your appetite. I don’t know if anybody has noticed this, but if you are hungry, and then, drink a cup of coffee, you might find yourself not feeling as hungry. So caffeine can definitely have that appetite dulling effect too, which is one of the main reasons why in addition to the the cortisol stuff that I really encourage people to be careful. 

Lindsey Lusson  18:05

Also, too a lot of our listeners are trying to concede. So we talk about, like, it’s not, don’t drink caffeine, but 200 milligrams and you’re done. Like, there should be no more. If you need more caffeine than that, what are we doing? Do we need to eat more? 

Lindsey Lusson  18:21

What are some other areas in working with the patients that you have that come from a more restrictive disordered eating background? What are some other places that you kind of lean in and educate around how kind of nutrient, repleting, weight restoring the roles that those can really play in healing somebody’s anxiety or depression even?

Everest Goldstein  18:44

Yeah. So a lot of different paths depending on the person, obviously. But one common thing, especially being in a more integrative, functional world, is I have a lot of people come to me, and they come with all of these food sensitivity tests. And I think there’s a time and a place for food sensitivity tests, but to be honest, I don’t run them a lot because I think there’s better ways to restore and look at gut health. 

Everest Goldstein  19:15

Honestly, I’ve been on the other end of this. Like, when I was really sick and got a food sensitivity test done by a provider, and they were like, Oh, you have to eliminate all of these foods. It was super restrictive for a while, and really stressful. It definitely increased my anxiety, and it didn’t do much. Because that wasn’t the problem. So really educating on well, first of all, figuring out why somebody is reacting to so many foods, right? What’s going on with their gut health? Oftentimes we need to increase, real Whole Foods to improve that and then they’ll stop reacting to as many foods.

Everest Goldstein  19:58

Then educating them that just because this was positive food sensitivity test doesn’t mean they’re actually necessarily, like, having an immune reaction to it, right? A lot of times, actually, when you do redo those food sensitivity tests, totally different foods will come up. We can go into that a different day. But, yeah, it’s really more based on, like, what you’ve been eating, and then the state of your gut health in general. 

Everest Goldstein  20:25

So educating that like these are not bad foods, these are not scary foods. We don’t always need to eliminate them, and we definitely don’t need to eliminate them forever, for the most part. Unless you have, like, a true allergy sensitivity, something like that that we can figure out. So that’s kind of one, one big thing that I see a lot of the time is this fear around certain foods. 

Lindsey Lusson  20:50

Yeah and that can be really hard, too. I mean, I’ve worked with several clients where I think so many times we try to put eating disorders in a box. They’re just afraid of being fat. I mean, absolutely that can be part of it for some people. But I’ve also worked with a lot of people who actually end up developing eating disorders because they’re just so afraid of reacting to foods, or foods making them feel so physically bad that their diet becomes so limited and then their body becomes malnourished. So lots of like different complexities and like the pathway can look different for everyone. How do you work with patients who have some real fears around foods, and helping them kind of overcome that?

Everest Goldstein  21:31

Yeah, so I think a big part of it is just educating on how our body, how our metabolism works. The connection between food and how we feel, and then taking it very slowly, but working on bringing back in foods, changing those thought patterns. So there’s a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy work on addressing, identifying and educating on what those thought patterns are. So that they can start to understand, Oh, I have have these thoughts about these foods, and when I am around them, that I get anxious. At least, like just starting out by acknowledging that.

Everest Goldstein  22:19

And then working on changing them through different techniques, mostly a lot of therapeutic techniques. Also working very closely with them on how to slowly bring these foods back into their diet. Because one thing too is if you haven’t been eating a lot of these foods for so long and you just throw them all back in right at the same time. You’re probably going to feel not great, and then you’re going to be even more scared of the foods. So working on that.

Everest Goldstein  22:50

Then also really working on just mindfulness, mindful eating, anti anxiety techniques in general. Because when we get anxious, so if you have a fear around food, and say you’re at a restaurant or you’re at a friend’s house and like that you can’t eat as clean as as you normally eat. If that’s the situation that’s happening. That’s probably going to cause some underlying anxiety. And then when we get anxious, or we get stressed, and our body starts to produce cortisol that actually impacts our ability to properly digest those foods, and then we end up having those symptoms that we’re scared of, not because of the food itself, but because of our fear around it. 

Everest Goldstein  23:33

So working on, how do we practice mindfulness in these social settings. What tools and techniques can we work on so that when we’re put in a setting where we might be exposed or eating something that we’ve typically been scared of, how do we stay calm? How do we look at it as, oh, this is something that’s nourishing my body as opposed to destroying it? And then really, like leaning in and understanding, too, that food and meals and all of that, it’s a very social part of our lives, right? So it’s really important that we work on these mindsets around food, or we’re going to be, missing out on a lot of that. 

Everest Goldstein  24:20

And so identifying, how can we reduce the anxiety around it? How can we change those underlying thoughts and heal our gut so that we can feel like, Oh, this is a food that is nourishing. Like all foods are nourishing. Now, the other thing I kind of see, too, is people going for a lot of, like, low calorie substitutes, like a lot of processed honestly maybe even not real food substitutes, because they’re low calorie, low fat, low carb, as opposed to just eating the real food, right? So that’s going to also lead to more diegestive issues.

Everest Goldstein  24:57

So that’s going to also lead to more digestive issues a lot of times, if you’re eating a lot of processed stuff with a bunch of different chemicals all of the time. Obviously there’s a balance, and you don’t want to be scared of all of that, either. But making sure that you’re just understanding what food is in terms of nourishment. Like, where do we get the nutrients that we need? How do these nutrients impact how we feel?

Lindsey Lusson  25:23

Definitely, I think we’re so quick to blame food too, right? Like, oh, it’s because we had dinner out at our neighbors and they cooked pasta. That’s it. I can’t eat gluten ever again, it just doesn’t agree with me. But what about all the other things that you just mentioned, about the you know, I have to eat super clean.  Even going a step further, like, why do you feel that way? Kind of addressing a lot of just the emotional state that you’re going into and how it almost turns into this, like, self fulfilling prophecy. 

Lindsey Lusson  25:51

Like, Well, yeah, if you’re sitting down to eat a plate of pasta, and you’re like, This is so bad, I’m gonna react. This is gonna make me fat, whatever those swirling thoughts are, it’s like, well, of course, you aren’t gonna digest the food, and you probably are gonna feel not so awesome. So I think everybody needs that little reminder that it’s not always just about the food. 

Everest Goldstein  26:08

Oh yeah, definitely. And also doing a little bit of like exposure types of therapy can help too. During that acknowledging that anxiety is okay in situations as well. It is normal. So if you’re trying to break some of these habits and break some of these thoughts, it’s going to be hard a lot of the time, right? And you know, the first time you go and try to eat a food that’s on your bad food list, you’re probably going to have a lot of thoughts going through your head. And a lot of times I see people kind of fighting those and they hate that feeling, and they think something’s wrong with them, and that almost leads to more anxiety. 

Everest Goldstein  26:48

So really normalizing the whole journey and being a support through that journey. Which I think is what you guys do a really good job at too, is, you know, being there, being able to talk to people about their experiences, so it’s not so isolating. 

Lindsey Lusson  27:05

Yeah, for sure, I think too that’s another thing with like disordered eating, is like you just live in your own head, and that’s exhausting, and you feel like you’re just carrying this big secret. Because can’t talk to us about other people, or they’re going to be like, Oh my gosh, you’re insane.

Lindsey Lusson  27:20

But when you don’t bring those thoughts to life, then they just live in your head, rent free, and they’re always swirling. And so I think it’s very validating for people to be able to talk about it, especially in a environment where people kind of understand, they’re like, oh my gosh, yes. Like, I used to think that way too, or I’ve struggled with that before too. So it just makes you feel, not that we’re ever trying to normalize disordered eating, but just to like, let you know that you’re not alone. 

Lindsey Lusson  27:46

I mean, there’s just so much power in community and connection.

Everest Goldstein  27:49

Definitely, and showing that it’s possible to overcome it too. 

Lindsey Lusson  27:54

Yeah. Let’s switch gears for a second and talk a little bit more about, like, hormones and fertility. I’m curious if you see people in your practice. I feel like this answer is going to be yes. But people who are seeking out support, going through an infertility journey or like a hormonal imbalance journey, and how you’ve been able to kind of help them bring things back into balance? 

Everest Goldstein  28:17

Yeah, so I do see that a lot. I think hormonal health and mental health are really intertwined. You think about imbalances in hormones, especially, you know, if we’re focusing on female hormones. If you imagined yourself having hormonal imbalances, you’re going to be feeling a lot of those symptoms. You’re going to be feeling pretty bad mentally, right? You’re going to be anxious, depressed, tired. So a lot of people come to me with those symptoms and the underlying cause, at least a big part of it, often, is hormonal imbalances. 

Everest Goldstein  28:55

So working with clients to figure out what those imbalances are and why they’re happening, so that we can restore them. So, you know, is it something that is related to under fueling or not eating enough? Because if you’re not eating enough, you aren’t going to produce hormones properly, right? Actually, all hormones come from cholesterol. So if we don’t have enough cholesterol, and you obviously don’t want, you know, high cholesterol, but we need fat, because if we don’t eat fat, we don’t get cholesterol, we cannot produce any hormones properly.

Everest Goldstein  29:32

So looking at that blood sugar really greatly impacts it. You know, balancing all of those things that we’ve talked about is really important. In addition to that, do we need support herbally or with supplements, or how can we get those nutrients through food s a really big thing I work with people. And then the other key part of that, that I see often is the correlation between Exercise and Movement and Hormonal Health. 

Everest Goldstein  30:05

Which I feel like really does kind of go hand in hand with HA and fertility as well. Because a lot of my clients who struggle with fertility if it’s not a true like identified… Their conventional medicine provider hasn’t identified it, a lot of times it’s actually over exercising.  Exercising, under eating. People are like, well, you know, it’s stress reducing for me to go run five, six days a week, and then I’m doing weights on top of it, and I’m working out twice a day, and that’s great for my body, because I’m in the best shape ever. So this should help me get pregnant. 

Everest Goldstein  30:45

That’s actually not the case, because every time you exercise, it’s actually a form of stress on your body. Now we need some of that stress. So stress can be good. But we don’t want too much stress. So when we’re getting too much stress, we’re producing too much cortisol and not just actually shutting down some of our key hormones, like progesterone that will help us get pregnant. 

Lindsey Lusson  31:07

Yep, yep. Same page. I’m just going to go ahead and ask the question that I know everybody’s going to would want to ask you right now. How do you know, Everest, how much is too much exercise?

Everest Goldstein  31:21

Oh, man, this is really the million dollar question, right? So I think it’s really hard for people to identify how much is too much. I think if you are not sure, it might be too much, if you think it’s a possibility, it might be too much. So really making sure you’re taking true rest days. And what does that look like? That doesn’t mean you’re going on a two hour long hike like that is a workout.  If you’re trying to conceive, if you feel like you are a more anxious person. Anxiety is increased and you’re having trouble, you might be exercising too much. Especially if you’re exercising like 567 days a week, or twice a day. 

Everest Goldstein  32:08

You definitely don’t need to be exercising twice a day, really, ever. 

Lindsey Lusson  32:12

And I mean, unless you’re training. I mean, unless you’re a global athlete.

Everest Goldstein  32:16

Like high school football two a days, yeah. 

Lindsey Lusson  32:19

I mean, but even those athletes have a season where they might be doing two a days, and then in the off season, they’re not. I think that women get into trouble when they’re training like athletes year round. Have no idea how to fuel for it, or too scared to fuel for it.

Lindsey Lusson  32:35

And ultimately kind of understanding that exercise is always going to be there. Butyour fertility, there’s an open, close window on that. And that’s what I always like to emphasize with people, is I want you to be able to be at the top of the leader on the peloton board, or to train for the triathlon, or to PR and your next marathon. Let’s do that. But you need to understand that for some people, fertility and PR ing in a marathon are going to be a conflicting goal. 

Everest Goldstein  33:09

Definitely. I mean, you look at a lot of Olympic athletes and they’re amazing, and what their bodies do are amazing. But a lot of them, especially the females like have lost their cycle, and that’s a known thing, right? Same thing with a lot of professional runners, just different professional athletes. If you’ve lost your cycle, you’re not going to be getting pregnant.

And it’s really important just for general health, to make sure that you have a period if you are wanting to be as healthy as possible. Also, one thing I talk about a lot is, because I bring up movement with all of my clients, and I really try to phrase it as movement, right? Because I exercise in our head is, oh, we have to go to the gym, or we have to go run or do a hit class. It’s such a physically exhaustive thing,

Everest Goldstein  34:05

And as humans, we don’t actually really need to be doing that. We just need to be moving our body. So I tell people it’s actually better for you. It’s been shown in studies that it’s better for you to go on, like, short, leisurely walks throughout the day and stretch and whatnot, than do an hour long HIIT workout and sit the rest of the day. 

Everest Goldstein  34:30

A lot of especially for females, I feel like a lot of the focus has been on cardio training, stuff like that. Those particular types of movement will cause your body to produce more cortisol, be more stressful on your body than you know, slower yoga, walking, even some weight training, things like that. So by doing too much cardio, that’s another way that we’re also suppressing our fertility in certain ways. 

Lindsey Lusson  35:05

Yeah, definitely. I think too a lot of like, our clients will run into the like, oh, well, it’s better to be moving all day long. That’s great. I’m going to do that and I’m going to go do my orange theory class five days a week, because, like, more is better. So yes, if you haven’t heard it yet, I think we’re hammering home the message that you can definitely have too much of a good thing. 

Lindsey Lusson  35:27

Talk to us a little bit more about how exercise in particular impacts progesterone. So progesterone being such an important hormone for fertility, but also for mood balance and emotional health. Can you explain a little bit the relationship between kind of cortisol, progesterone and how exercise can really maybe not be the best thing for that, for for everybody? 

Everest Goldstein  35:51

Yeah, so progesterone and cortisol have a very interesting relationship. So progesterone is really key for fertility, for Hormonal Health, and it cycles throughout a month, throughout our cycle. Cortisol is that stress hormone. So when we’re anxious, when we exercise, when we’re doing anything that’s putting our body in a stressful state, including fasting, is another one that really increases that that will cause our body to produce cortisol. So when we start producing too much cortisol, which is very common these days because of the way that we are eating, exercising, you know, all of the things, but also just not prioritizing mindfulness. 

Everest Goldstein  36:37

So like a lot of us, are chronically stressed in jobs and daily life with families, whatever it may be. We’re producing a lot of cortisol. When we’re producing too much cortisol, our body kind of goes into like almost an alarm state, right? And that tells our body okay, it’s not safe right now to get pregnant, and if our body thinks that it’s going to shut down certain hormones. So our body actually starts shunting away from producing progesterone. We call it the cortisol steel, which essentially, if you have too much cortisol, you have too little progesterone. 

Everest Goldstein  37:16

Part of the reason our body is doing that, it’s a defense mechanism, right? If we think back to the Paleolithic era, we were being chased by a tiger, or if we were under extreme stress, it’s not the time for us to safely develop a baby, right? So our bodies have not changed from that time, and we are under a lot more stress, whether it’s through exercise, through under eating, fasting, whatever it may be. And now we’re not being able to produce that progesterone. Not only does that impact fertility, but it really impacts mental health. 

Everest Goldstein  37:53

A lot of times what that will look like is too much estrogen, too little progesterone or estrogen dominance. And so if you’re someone who has, like, really bad PMS or PMDD symptoms, a lot of those, just like what you would think of as classic hormonal symptoms, mood, anxiety, cramps, heavy bleeding, that is a sign that you might have too little progesterone. So I would ask yourself, why is that? You know, is it something that you’re doing physically? Is it something in terms of your diet, or is it something else you need to really look into? 

Lindsey Lusson  38:28

Yeah, yeah. We talk a lot about missing periods, not having a period at all. I think that that pattern is obviously a little bit more obvious that somebody is under fueling, I think the pattern of estrogen dominance, low progesterone, especially in active women. I mean, there’s other reasons why that can go on, but especially in active women, I feel like we fail to acknowledge that that might be a, hey, too much movement, too little food, or even, like, the fasting, right? 

Lindsey Lusson  38:58

So maybe there’s, like, enough food, but it’s your body is stressed all day if you’re withholding food, and that alone can can just tank out hormones. 

Everest Goldstein  39:07

Oh, yeah. And I think also, you know, one thing I want to mention back to, I guess exercise and fasting is a lot of people think that they should be exercising in a fasted state, especially those like morning workouters. And what’s interesting is, there’s a lot of data on that right of you know, if you work out in a fasted state, you’re start to burn ketones. It’s better for your cognitive health. You know, all these benefits.  

Everest Goldstein  39:37

What’s actually come out… All of that research was done on men. So females actually have different receptors in their brain. one of them kiss peptin. It’s the whole thing that we don’t need to go into scientifically. But because of that, when we work out in a fasted state, it’s not giving us the same benefit and it’s actually stressing our body in a negative way. 

Everest Goldstein  40:03

So really, what science has come out and shown is that as females, you should be having at least 15 grams of protein and carbs before doing a workout. So you know, if you’re getting up even at like 430 or five to work out, at least get some like, you know, protein shake or something that you can get some of that fuel in so you don’t go into like an overly stressed state. 

Lindsey Lusson  40:28

Yeah, yeah, you’ll probably also have a way better workout, even if it’s just living a little bit before. Piggybacking off of that. There’s a really interesting research study that was done in athletes who have their periods versus ones who don’t. So kind of going back to our Olympic athletes who.. Just the whole big question so many people have is like, Why do I lose my period but my friend didn’t, or whatever? There was a research study that was done on athletes, and what they found was the ones who were getting some sort of cycle, versus the ones that were totally amenorrheic or didn’t have a period at all, was the ones that were in amenorrhea were in a fasted state longer within a 24 hour period. 

Lindsey Lusson  41:08

So they were waking up, working out, not eating anything, maybe having a protein shake after stamping by on like coffee or water until lunch, and then finally eating. And at the end of the day, their intake appeared similar, but because the body had been in such a stress state all day long, the other ones were struggling with having regular periods. 

Everest Goldstein  41:30

Interesting. Yeah, I’d love to… Send me that study. I mean, it makes total sense and not surprising to me at all. But, yeah, very interesting. I’m glad they they did that study, because I think it’s so important for people to see that data too. Like a lot of people, you can believe kind of whatever you want, but once you actually have data in front of you, numbers in front of you, it’s a lot easier for people to wrap their head around what’s going on with their life. 

Lindsey Lusson  41:58

I think so too. We just need to get it in front of the right people. With people having such loud voices telling us the the opposite, like confusing everything. That would solve the issue.

Lindsey Lusson  42:12

Well, Everest, you have been super helpful in all of this. If somebody wants to know a little bit more about what you do or how to work with you, what’s the best way for somebody to get in touch with you? 

Everest Goldstein  42:21

Yeah, so I you can always follow me on Instagram. It’s @wellnesswtheverest. Just like to share little tips and tricks. Then you can always look me up on my website, message me through there. It’s everestpsychandwellness.com. And Lindsey, you can feel free to share that.

Lindsey Lusson  42:40

I will put it in the show notes. And do you work with clients? Most patients and clients, mostly locally. Is that right? 

Everest Goldstein  42:46

So I see anybody right now throughout Texas.

Lindsey Lusson  42:48

Okay, perfect. Well, I’m sure we have plenty of Texas listeners tuning in, so thanks again for your time and thanks for being here. 

Everest Goldstein  42:55

Yeah, thank you. Lindsey, thanks guys. 

Connect with Lindsey Lusson: 

Instagram: @‌food.freedom.fertility
Website: www.foodfreedomandfertility.com/
Twitter: @LindseyLusson
Tiktok: @food.freedom.fertility